Chat — Exploring the Lord of the Rings, Live! (2026-10-07)

Chat transcript — Exploring the Lord of the Rings, Live!
Occurrence: 2026-10-07 02:00 UTC

[01:53] JJ48: Yo
[01:54] David M.: Is it working now?
[01:54] JJ48: Is what working?
[01:55] TolkienProf: Excellent!
[01:56] Dr.Benway: I think it is working, is this where the discussion will be?
[01:58] ATrifleSauronFancies: Or in Zoom? Many confused people on Discord, lol.
[01:59] TolkienProf: Heh.  Don't worry -- I'll explain!  But yes -- here.
[01:59] Dr.Benway: I have faith that it will sort itself out once it gets started
[02:03] ATrifleSauronFancies: Once everyone gets over the panic of desperately trying to change their name on Zoom from their full legal one, lol.
[02:03] Bob_the_3quarterling: greetings, earthling humanoids, and good timezone
[02:03] Doorward: It’s working! Yay!
[02:03] Bob_the_3quarterling: this is working. but i'm not sure i can get into the zoom without autodoxxing myself. will we be able to listen via discord still? at least this week?
[02:05] SilkWeskit: Tada!  Hello World!
[02:06] Ithilijen: Now I'm trying to read chat streams on Discord and here and my eyes might not make it through the night
[02:10] Louise: So… my eyes might break from looking at discord and Zoom and this chat
[02:13] SilkWeskit: Welcome one and all, to the No Fun Chat. (hopefully just for now).
[02:18] JJ48: Yeah, I sometimes get moths trying to bomb my streams, too.
[02:18] Louise: Hopefully we’ll find out where to chat
[02:18] SilkWeskit: Chat in the chat box within zoom
[02:18] Doorward: So many windows open
[02:19] Doorward: Interestingly, I’m here using my tablet. The ‘send’ button does not work here but the return button on the keypad does
[02:22] JJ48: Wow!  Visuals to accompany the audio?  What a fresh, new ExLotR experience!
[02:24] Doorward: I will miss the custom emojis in Discord
[02:24] Bob_the_3quarterling: same
[02:25] JJ48: One app to bring them all and to the website bind them...
[02:28] Doorward: All Signum things will be in the Fellowship
[02:28] ATrifleSauronFancies: This chat needs emojis
[02:28] Doorward: It does if you are on a device like a phone or tablet.
[02:28] Doorward: 🔥
[02:29] JJ48: <Insert "thumbs-up" emoji for ATrifleSauronFancies' comment>
[02:29] Doorward: :fire:
[02:31] RoenOnTheRiver: Ooo I have found this chat too
[02:32] Aranoss: Suggestion for the devs: allow this chat to take up more than a quarter of the screen
[02:33] ATrifleSauronFancies: Amen to that!
[02:33] Bob_the_3quarterling: :pointing up emoji:
[02:33] ATrifleSauronFancies: I think this chat has potential! Emojis would be great, though, lol.
[02:33] Praise M.: So THIS one is the preference, not the one within zoom?
[02:34] Doorward: Superfenestration noted here in the archived chat
[02:34] JJ48: We need to keep Discord open so that we can take its most triumphant notes and weave them into this solemn pattern.
[02:34] Praise M.: It's harder to do on mobile with two windows, but I get it
[02:35] Dr.Benway: ok, so in here?
[02:35] the_bearded_elf: Wait, are we chatting here!? 😂
[02:35] Doorward: Welcome!
[02:35] Raetta: everywhere, we are everywhere
[02:35] Fencing_Frog: So it would seem
[02:35] Doorward: All the places!
[02:35] ATrifleSauronFancies: Bring back the old school emojis! >:3
[02:35] Ambrosius_Aurelianus: Is this the place? Waaaaah? THREE CHATS?
[02:35] Andrew H.: Aha! I found it!
[02:35] AprilDaydream: Me too!
[02:35] RoenOnTheRiver: This is the place
[02:35] Turadel: Oh - this is the new "officially authorized" chat?
[02:35] SilkWeskit: Ye!
[02:35] Eadric: Ah ok, finally found this window. Wish I could maximize it
[02:35] Louise: It’s so small
[02:35] Turadel: And with my usual name!
[02:36] Mith: Hello!
[02:36] SilkWeskit: Hello
[02:36] Miss_Ray: Aha!
[02:36] JJ48: "Back in my day, we didn't have emojis.  Just text-character-based emoticons.
[02:36] jacque_jackie: It's so fluid
[02:36] RoenOnTheRiver: I'd love to be able to pop it out
[02:36] SilkWeskit: :)
[02:36] Rin: Hallo
[02:36] Doorward: I will make a ‘maximize’ chat window request to the devs.
[02:36] Melegyrn: Here? This is really awkward!
[02:37] Rin: Oi, "display name" my friggin.... *goes to change it again*
[02:37] Eadric: Also nice to have but not essential: assigning random colors to usernames like Discord (or, let us choose our colors)
[02:37] Bob_the_3quarterling: "for many a day" is an extra syllable
[02:37] Rin: Try this again.
[02:37] Rin: There we go.
[02:37] SilkWeskit: Yay!
[02:38] kurtzimus: oh boy
[02:38] the_bearded_elf: 👍
[02:38] JJ48: @Eadric Maybe, but I know on Twitch that can sometimes lead to some names getting lost against the background.
[02:38] Alexander R.: Awaited her for [many a day]
[02:38] Aranoss: unless you say it as "manya day"
[02:38] jacque_jackie: It sounds better than "many days"
[02:38] SilkWeskit: Unless it pronounced "menya"
[02:38] Formendacil: Finally found the chat
[02:39] Aranoss: I like both
[02:39] Ithilijen: I hear it as a triplet
[02:39] Doorward: Trying the chat on my phone
[02:39] jacque_jackie: Gotta be ya
[02:39] SilkWeskit: It's almost a limerick that way.
[02:39] JJ48: We don't need to go the hymn route of including non-standard contractions?
[02:39] AprilDaydream: It's an eighth not in place of a quarter note
[02:39] Alexander R.: The 'a' should take the stress, but it cannot
[02:40] AprilDaydream: many is doubled up
[02:40] SilkWeskit: The A and I have a lot in common that way.
[02:40] AprilDaydream: sing it.
[02:40] Alexander R.: It feels like a triplet in there
[02:40] RoenOnTheRiver: The rhythmic variation makes it feel more true to how people sing
[02:41] Turadel: (sing) to Yellow Rose of Texas ...
[02:41] AprilDaydream: or the wreck of the edmund fitzgerald... I'm a broken record.
[02:41] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: Or "O Little Town of Bethlehem."
[02:42] kurtzimus: Greensleaves
[02:42] Ryan D.: How Can I Keep from Singing
[02:43] kurtzimus: An uninspired name...
[02:43] Formendacil: You can’t
[02:43] jacque_jackie: Elven and haven
[02:43] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: Do we have any idea what tune Tolkien himself envisioned (enaudiated?) this song being sung to?
[02:44] AprilDaydream: I like edmund fitzgerald because thematically there are similarities. Tragedy at sea. Something that you might here aboard ship.
[02:44] jacque_jackie: Elven and haven
[02:44] jacque_jackie: Ven even
[02:44] AprilDaydream: sorry "hear". We can't fix errors.... *crying*
[02:44] AprilDaydream: We had one.
[02:44] Eadric: voice
[02:44] RoenOnTheRiver: And historically, people did. Most folk songs, the words and the melodies have separate existances. It's most noticeable in Christmas carols where we have multiple versions recorded in periodical publications.
[02:44] the_bearded_elf: I thought V was variation of F
[02:45] jacque_jackie: Should "ven" be in a block?
[02:45] Eadric: Didn't quite finish my system of related colors for related sounds, but very close
[02:45] AprilDaydream: didn't they use to publish only the verse and then announce which tune they would sing at any given meeting? Most people don't read music after all.
[02:45] Alexander R.: Then 'ven' works with 'ben'
[02:46] jacque_jackie: And in elven-strands coming up
[02:46] Aranoss: shouldn't you use the 'lv' box for elven?
[02:46] AprilDaydream: So it's almost B'neath and B'side.
[02:46] Alexander R.: True, 'ben' in 'beneath' and 'beside'
[02:46] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: @AprilDaydream, yes, and different congregations would sing songs to different tunes, and it was down to sort of local culture.  Change churches and you would have to learn new tunes.
[02:46] Eadric: If you think of the schwa as barely pronounced, elvn and havn are almost single syllables
[02:47] RoenOnTheRiver: Usually it was the musicans who would lead with whatever was popular at the time. The standardization came as people started writing down and publishing notation, and later with audio recordings
[02:47] AprilDaydream: That's what I thought! Thanks, guys!
[02:47] jacque_jackie: But it ties into the next stanza, so it's another braid-ish element
[02:48] jacque_jackie: The n's too
[02:49] Aranoss: If you are using the green 'v' box here, you go back to Stanza 1 and fix the elven and silver there
[02:49] Eadric: grey … await- … day
[02:49] Aranoss: *should
[02:49] jacque_jackie: Lots of n's
[02:49] Eadric: most stanzas are linked, but not always in the same way
[02:49] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: Serious question: why is the haven "grey"?  We've had this idea of the world becoming "grey," but what makes the haven "grey"?
[02:49] Turadel: Being so far north?
[02:49] Druidsfire: Color of the sea?
[02:49] Aranoss: complaining is too strong
[02:50] SilkWeskit: Back-seat kvetching?
[02:50] jacque_jackie: See the n sounds in the above stanza aligning with this one. Elven, haven. beneath, mountain, many...
[02:50] AprilDaydream: or is the boat grey as it sits in "haven"
[02:50] Eadric: strayed … grey = a link between stanzas
[02:50] Aranoss: We will get many instances of elven
[02:51] AprilDaydream: because it's in the shadow of the mountain.
[02:51] Eadric: [be]side the roaring … night in Northern = a link to the next stanza
[02:51] jacque_jackie: The n sounds connect all three stanzas
[02:51] Eadric: ooh I wish I could edit comments in here. I'm going to have to be careful!
[02:51] Amathorn: Does this thing work?  :-P
[02:51] Rin: Yes Amathorn lol
[02:52] AprilDaydream: @Eadric I know, right!?!
[02:52] Eadric: beside the roaring … by night in Northern
[02:52] jacque_jackie: I don't think it does lol
[02:52] jacque_jackie: N SOUNDS
[02:52] Rin: Y'all are gonna have to learn to use ye olde * to put in edits ;P
[02:52] jacque_jackie: Elven, haven, mountain
[02:52] jacque_jackie: And middle
[02:52] Eadric: The next stanza has lots of Ns
[02:52] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: This is like a tragic version of Lear's "The Jumblies."
[02:53] jacque_jackie: Ya, like above
[02:53] jacque_jackie: And in "many"
[02:53] jacque_jackie: Then it ties into the next stanza
[02:53] Eadric: "A wind by night in Northern lands" so many Ns
[02:54] Aranoss: It's the only tengwa in the word ;-)
[02:54] Turadel: Wow, this is the slowest and picky-est process I've seen since ... well, since Rivendell (which is where I joined youse guys)
[02:54] Doorward: @Rin request to be able to edit comments is noted
[02:54] AprilDaydream: because you hang more on the 'n' than the 'd'
[02:54] kurtzimus: in in as well
[02:54] Turadel: Talk about watching the sausage getting made ...  lol
[02:54] Eadric: And the beginning of the *next* stanza; dawn, dim, land
[02:55] Rin: Thanks Doorward lol
[02:55] AprilDaydream: @Turadel ew...
[02:55] AprilDaydream: previous slide!
[02:55] jacque_jackie: Water, clear, silver in the 4th stanza
[02:55] AprilDaydream: What color have we not used yet.
[02:55] AprilDaydream: ?
[02:56] Fencing_Frog: Too many colors...
[02:56] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: This is like a 3D crossword puzzle.
[02:56] Eadric: He hasn't started a lot of syllables with Rs. And he didn't pronounce the final ones, generally
[02:56] Fencing_Frog: you are Saruman of many colors
[02:56] Aranoss: 4D crossword puzzle
[02:56] AprilDaydream: We need bright orange
[02:56] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: @Aranoss, yeah, more like.
[02:56] Alexander R.: So are we operating under an emergent pattern of an almost terza-rima alliteration linking stanzas?
[02:56] AprilDaydream: can you oomph it up
[02:56] Eadric: bright yellow for R?
[02:56] jacque_jackie: Navy?
[02:57] AprilDaydream: more yellow in the mix
[02:57] AprilDaydream: Bright!
[02:57] Eadric: works with the orange of the Ls
[02:57] AprilDaydream: Have we used that?
[02:57] jacque_jackie: Tom Bombadil would love
[02:57] Andrew H.: Octarine perhaps?
[02:57] AprilDaydream: Cool
[02:57] AprilDaydream: absolutely.
[02:58] Aranoss: It also works with the pale lemon used for 'air'
[02:58] jacque_jackie: Should we go back to the above stanza and do "yore" and "Nimrodel"?
[02:58] AprilDaydream: yore
[02:58] Eadric: And it's a flap in Tolkien's dialect.
[02:58] AprilDaydream: @jacque absolutely
[02:58] Eadric: Tolkien didn't pronounce the R in "yore"
[02:58] AprilDaydream: yoe
[02:58] Eadric: grey … await … day
[02:58] JJ48: "Yo"?
[02:58] jacque_jackie: Ya, lots of random r's
[02:59] jacque_jackie: I thought Tolkien's reading was not authoritative
[02:59] Aranoss: He said the 't' though ;-)
[02:59] Eadric: Right. Almost no final Rs.
[02:59] AprilDaydream: I guess so. They make fun of all the time for 'water'
[02:59] JJ48: It's pronounced "Mer'can".
[02:59] Miss_Ray: If it was before a vowel, he would have, yes?
[02:59] jacque_jackie: Gotcha
[02:59] Eadric: for him, "yore" rhymes with "saw"
[02:59] kurtzimus: how do you say it with no r?
[02:59] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: I feel like there should be one way to link whole-word resonances, like the way that "gold," "silver," "white," "elven," "mountain," and similar words recur throughtout, another way to link syllabic resonances like in "elven" and "haven," a third way to link alliterations, and a fourth way to link assonances.
[02:59] AprilDaydream: does he ever do a rolled R
[03:00] Eadric: works the same as an old New York accent
[03:00] Ithilijen: with "nimrodel" maybe
[03:00] Bob_the_3quarterling: some elvish Rs i think have at least a tap, possibly a roll?
[03:00] Eadric: usually shorter: a flap or tap.
[03:00] Aranoss: Only when speaking elven languages
[03:00] Alexander R.: He does do the R tap in his recordings
[03:00] SilkWeskit: Lord knows there are enough rolled "r"s in the text.
[03:00] AprilDaydream: more of a flip
[03:00] AprilDaydream: yeah.
[03:00] jacque_jackie: Like me
[03:00] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: The dog's letter.
[03:00] Eadric: hah like a Brit trying to do an American accent
[03:00] Andrew H.: I think he taps his Rs in Sam's troll poem
[03:01] JJ48: Are rolled 'r's a more Latin-language thing?  I tend to associate it with Spanish.
[03:01] Ithilijen: more like a really really light "d"
[03:01] AprilDaydream: Antonio Banderas has joined the chat.
[03:01] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: It's also very Scottish.
[03:01] kurtzimus: Is it a tap or a flap? Or a flip
[03:01] SilkWeskit: With the "mr", it's almost going to add a "d", tes.
[03:01] Doorward: Chat is freezing up occasionally for some. I’ve made a note for the devs.
[03:01] Eadric: tap and flap are almost the same
[03:01] SilkWeskit: More like Nimhrodel
[03:01] Raetta: alveolar tap
[03:02] Eadric: Chat logged me out randomly. I logged back in and am fine.
[03:02] Ithilijen: The Secret of Nimhrodel
[03:02] Aranoss: @Doorward New suggestion for meeting chat: no autoscroll to bottom on new comment.
[03:02] Johannes M.: Woh! Shout out to Prague!
[03:02] kurtzimus: A tap a flap a tip a flip
[03:02] Eadric: oh yeah like Polish rz
[03:02] Bob_the_3quarterling: from the orthography, i get the sense that in Czech vowels are optional?
[03:02] Doorward: @Aronoss Noted!
[03:02] Andrew H.: Now try the Welsh double L
[03:02] Eadric: oh fun
[03:02] AprilDaydream: its a roll, a flip, and a jzuzh
[03:02] Sarah V.: I feel that!  I have a Ukrainian language partner, and I almost never manage all the sounds of her consonants.
[03:02] Eadric: how do they do it different
[03:02] kurtzimus: try the chinese zh
[03:02] Cassidy W.: I believe it's pronounced Ciboleth XD
[03:02] Eadric: welsh is much easier
[03:02] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: Nice use of "shibboleth."
[03:03] adpirtle: Found the right chat finally. Huzzah!
[03:03] jacque_jackie: And we're back to The Peoples of Middle-earth
[03:03] Eadric: It must be from the Shibboleth region of Israel. Anything else is a sparkling password
[03:03] Rin: I cannot roll an R to save my life lol (Taps I can do but...)
[03:03] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: @Eadric, excellent.
[03:03] AprilDaydream: strands
[03:03] JJ48: I'm suddenly even happier that I chose Japanese as me second language to attempt.  >_>
[03:04] JJ48: my*
[03:04] jacque_jackie: And elven again
[03:04] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: "A wind by night" gives me Annabel Lee vibes.
[03:04] Eadric: The vowel pattern here is what connects this stanza to the previous: "Beside the roaring … by night in Northern"
[03:04] AprilDaydream: n in strands
[03:04] Raetta: does tagging and replying work in here? no? i want to answer something someone said above
[03:04] Druidsfire: Goes back up to 'mountains strayed'
[03:04] Bob_the_3quarterling: no tagging, no replying, no emojis
[03:04] Raetta: heck
[03:04] Eadric: @Raetta not yet, just use a @ symbol
[03:05] Andrew H.: "Elven-strands" hyphenated word alert!
[03:05] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: @Raetta, I'm sure the powers-that-be are working on it.
[03:05] AprilDaydream: we are going to revive all the 1990s emojis.:D
[03:05] Sarah V.: ;-)
[03:05] Raetta: ROFLCOPTERS and what not to return?
[03:05] Fencing_Frog: The Poem shall now Nimrodel of Many Colors...
[03:05] Eadric: I'm imagining strands of spaghettified elves
[03:05] adpirtle: B^D
[03:05] Aranoss: aRose has a prominent 'r'
[03:05] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: What do we think "elven-strands," specifically, are?
[03:05] Fencing_Frog: @eadric I like it
[03:06] AprilDaydream: beaches in valenor
[03:06] jacque_jackie: Arose, Across
[03:06] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: Are they the ones littered with gemstones?
[03:06] Andrew H.: Galadriel would later give Gimli three elven-strands
[03:06] Cassidy W.: Right around the board from Elven Pall Mall
[03:06] Eadric: so qualitatively different from human beaches.
[03:06] kurtzimus: woah woah, aren't we still coloring letters?
[03:06] Aranoss: Save content discussion for after the structure. You know in 6 weeks time.
[03:06] Eadric: Elven-strands differ from human-strands as Faerie differs from the Jersey Shore
[03:06] AprilDaydream: n in strands
[03:06] Turadel: "Elven-strands" because of all them Elves a-dwelling in the Blue Mountains???
[03:06] JJ48: Now, is the ship being driven away from elven-strands, or is the "ship from elven-strands" what is being driven?
[03:07] SilkWeskit: Derailed again...
[03:07] Alexander R.: I was just reading Galahad and the Grail from Malcolm Guite, and he loves that 'strand' word. Such an Arthurian vibe for me. Still faerie
[03:07] Aranoss: But this haven is down near Dol Amroth, not in the Ered Luin
[03:07] kurtzimus: from..across
[03:07] Rin: @Eadric I'm not sure Jersey Shore isn't something else entirely lol
[03:07] Clarke: It's called an "elven-ship" in the last stanza, so I think the latter
[03:07] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: @Alexander R., I am really looking forward to reading that!
[03:07] jacque_jackie: Awaited, Arose, Across
[03:07] KappaCasein: A little internal rhyme with “arose” and “And drove”
[03:08] AprilDaydream: n strands. help.
[03:08] Eadric: it also matches the first line: the wind in northern lands, the ship from elven-strands
[03:08] adpirtle: Strand just makes me think of book stores.
[03:08] AprilDaydream: they are all un accented.
[03:08] jacque_jackie: And there's "Awaited" up above!
[03:08] Eadric: negative stress
[03:08] AprilDaydream: they are SO chill
[03:08] Alexander R.: 'aWaited' and 'a Wind'
[03:08] Turadel: "unstressed" ... unlike some of us, no doubt ... :-)
[03:08] Sarah J.: Those A's are SO laid back ...
[03:09] jacque_jackie: It's nice to look at though
[03:09] Eadric: 'Arose' and 'and drove' rhyme (but not 'across'—different vowel)
[03:09] Eadric: Have we marked the "igh" diphthong?
[03:10] Eadric: beside, by night
[03:10] AprilDaydream: do we have a 'd'
[03:10] Eadric: and now it's part of this stanza's rhyme
[03:10] Eadric: it connects this stanza with the previous line
[03:10] AprilDaydream: loud, cried, tide
[03:10] Eadric: 'side the roaring' … 'night in Northern'
[03:10] Alexander R.: I suspect the initial  stress of lines definitely form a lot of connective tissue
[03:11] AprilDaydream: n in strands
[03:11] Eadric: 'beside' above
[03:11] AprilDaydream: match the lands
[03:11] Bob_the_3quarterling: the d is seriously involved in the rhyme in this stanza, yup
[03:11] jacque_jackie: Good catch Eric
[03:11] Eadric: and SO many Ds in the next stanza
[03:11] Clarke: Don't forget "lanDs" - rhymes with strands
[03:12] AprilDaydream: ooo. i like that.
[03:12] AprilDaydream: n in strands
[03:12] Eadric: d in wind
[03:12] jacque_jackie: The d in "beside"
[03:12] AprilDaydream: n in elven & Strands
[03:13] Eadric: hah 'stranded'
[03:13] jacque_jackie: The random r's
[03:14] Eadric: also roaring and arose have different vowel sounds for Tolkien
[03:15] AprilDaydream: that's a good overlap.
[03:16] Eadric: No R in "Northern" for Tolkien
[03:16] Aranoss: we also have an 'sh' in the middle tying to the previous stanza
[03:16] Alexander R.: Right, so the long 'O' fits the 'O' in arose
[03:16] AprilDaydream: "elveN-straNds"
[03:17] Aranoss: 'north' rhymes with 'awe' for JRRT
[03:18] Eadric: night is shorter and higher
[03:18] Alexander R.: T is the unvoiced D
[03:18] jacque_jackie: Ya, it's close
[03:18] Alexander R.: night/cried/tide
[03:18] Eadric: beside … cried … tide are all the same
[03:19] Clarke: Agree with AprilDaydream - "elveN-straNds"
[03:19] Aranoss: 'cried' and 'tide' yes. 'night' is a slant rhyme
[03:19] jacque_jackie: I like it
[03:19] jacque_jackie: Braid
[03:19] Eadric: Tolkien didn't have the right/ride merger that many US folks do
[03:20] Andrew H.: The thing I'm noticing in these four stanzas is that lines 2 and 4 start with the same sound, or at least a similar sound. It doesn't hold true for the entire poem, but it does for these 4 stanzas.
[03:21] Andrew H.: It works for about half of the stanzas in the poem.
[03:21] Bob_the_3quarterling: if you use the "all vowels alliterate" rule, they all follow that pattern, yes
[03:21] Bob_the_3quarterling: (i think that was the rule in Old English?)
[03:22] Miss_Ray: Is there a pattern for those stanzas within the poem?
[03:22] Eadric: In this case, the unstressed in and and are nearly identical
[03:22] Bob_the_3quarterling: ah, right
[03:22] Ithilijen: all those open "A"s evoke wailing or grief
[03:22] Clarke: Unstressed "in" and "and" are both shwa + n
[03:23] Alexander R.: I would argue that 'in' is not a schwa
[03:23] Alexander R.: it is short though
[03:24] Alexander R.: The IPA on them should be distinct
[03:24] Clarke: Yeah, I make a difference between the two sounds too, but they are both reduced vowels
[03:25] jacque_jackie: Glad to see those A's boxed up
[03:25] Aranoss: The dominant sounds are pairs though: 'n' then 'b' then 'a' then 'eth'
[03:25] RoenOnTheRiver: The Ms in that one
[03:25] Eadric: lotta nasals here
[03:25] Clarke: Please let's not forget the Ns in "elveN-stranDs" in the previous stanza
[03:26] Aranoss: p b p
[03:26] Clarke: *straNds
[03:26] Doorward: 💣💣💣
[03:26] jacque_jackie: What a round about way to write those lines I love it
[03:26] Alexander R.: V in heaving/waves and T sound in that/tossed (tost)
[03:26] AprilDaydream: Thank You!
[03:26] Alexander R.: Kind of a pair of double alliterations in L1/3
[03:26] Clarke: (That was AprilDaydream who first brought it up)
[03:27] Eadric: grey … waves … spray
[03:27] jacque_jackie: Lots of n's again
[03:27] Miss_Ray: Chances are you’ll produce a little of your own blinding spray as you speak that line aloud. Don’t stand too close to your neighbor’s face while you do.
[03:27] jacque_jackie: Ya
[03:27] Alexander R.: Sibilant + plosive = spray?
[03:27] Eadric: enough nasals that it takes time to say the second line, slowly as the mountains sink
[03:28] jacque_jackie: The next stanza might give us more context too
[03:28] Aranoss: Yes, phonemically speaking, the 'd' at the end of tossed is pronounced as a 't'
[03:29] Miss_Ray: I like “plosive to the eye” as a phrase…
[03:29] Eadric: counting m, n, and ng together, there are 13 nasals in this one stanza
[03:29] jacque_jackie: Beyond
[03:29] jacque_jackie: Beheld
[03:29] Eadric: sorry 14
[03:29] jacque_jackie: And beyond again
[03:29] Clarke: There is a nice hidden pattern of nasals in "WheN dawN caMe diM..."
[03:30] Aranoss: the 'y' is dominant in beyond
[03:30] jacque_jackie: It's almost a different sound
[03:31] Aspen C.: And L in plumes?
[03:31] jacque_jackie: Several plurals, also
[03:32] Miss_Ray: PLumes/ BLinding
[03:32] Aspen C.: "Streaming"
[03:32] RoenOnTheRiver: There's the Ns in there too with dawn and mountains
[03:32] jacque_jackie: There are so many n's
[03:32] jacque_jackie: Sinking
[03:32] Aranoss: Have we seen a single stressed 't' yet?
[03:32] jacque_jackie: Blinding
[03:32] Clarke: When
[03:33] jacque_jackie: Land
[03:33] jacque_jackie: Grey and spray
[03:33] Alexander R.: @Aranoss, in the whole poem? I'll peek
[03:33] Eadric: and ng
[03:34] Andrew H.: What word is being modified by "grey"? Its position in the sentence suggests that it's an adverb modifying "sinking" but it seems rather to be an adjective modifying "mountains". Curse modern English and its lack of cases!
[03:34] Eadric: there are 2 in sinking
[03:34] jacque_jackie: Mountains are grey
[03:34] Alexander R.: as leaf on lindon-[T]ree
[03:34] Aspen C.: ("When" should sound like "Ben-jamin", not "pin"
[03:34] Aranoss: Ah, in 'inTo' also
[03:34] Alexander R.: oops, apparently you can't do multiline here?
[03:35] Alexander R.: Yes, and [T]ell in s5
[03:35] Eadric: that'll make quoting poetry hard
[03:35] Aranoss: Not yet
[03:35] jacque_jackie: And mountainS Sinking
[03:35] Turadel: Line one, and then ...
[03:35] Turadel: line two.
[03:35] Eadric: ng sound occurs 2x in sinking
[03:36] Eadric: nk = ng+k
[03:36] Turadel: Drat. "CTRL-enter" behaves just like "enter"
[03:36] jacque_jackie: If you were singing this, mountainS Sinking would be a long s
[03:36] Alexander R.: I think the Tengwar differentiate them and puts the bar over the nk, but uses the ng char
[03:36] Aranoss: depends on regional pronunciation I think
[03:37] Eadric: ng = /ŋ/   nk = /ŋk/ in dictinaries
[03:37] Mark I.: There's also "streaming" in the last line of stanza 7
[03:37] jacque_jackie: And we have sinkinG Grey
[03:37] Clarke: I think the vowel may be slightly different, but the nasal is the same /ŋ/
[03:37] Alexander R.: I agree, @Eadric, IPA always marks those, but I think the tengwar might indicate Tolkien say them as distinct
[03:37] Alexander R.: saw*
[03:38] Aspen C.: An 'x' through them?
[03:38] jacque_jackie: B's
[03:39] Alexander R.: Troche!
[03:39] Miss_Ray: The stress!
[03:40] Alexander R.: A->Ash
[03:40] Eadric: finally a stressed A after all those unstressed initial As
[03:40] Miss_Ray: BEheld/BEyond
[03:41] Andrew H.: Are we sure it's not am-ROTH?
[03:42] Eadric: I would say AM has primary stress and Roth has secondary
[03:42] jacque_jackie: Another beyond to tie it in
[03:42] Alexander R.: last line: of [A]mroth EverMore
[03:43] jacque_jackie: So many d sounds
[03:43] Eadric: for the devs: when I try to scroll up in this chat, every new post pulls be back to the bottom.
[03:43] jacque_jackie: Shore and ship
[03:43] Aranoss: That has been noted for the devs
[03:43] Eadric: beheld … swell
[03:44] Eadric: quiet L in faithless
[03:44] MaureenD: lost and tossed
[03:46] Alexander R.: did we get SHip and SHore
[03:46] Clarke: Nice weaving of F-sounds, SH-sounds, and rhyme in "Fading SHORE ... Faithless SHip that bORE"
[03:46] Eadric: nice catch
[03:46] jacque_jackie: Ore and Ore
[03:47] Clarke: (Plus the long a sound which I missed until you read it aloud)
[03:47] jacque_jackie: Lots of secondary d sounds in this too
[03:47] Alexander R.: That 'k' sound in 'cursed' stands out so much as a lone K
[03:47] Eadric: S sounds: swell, cursed, faithless
[03:48] Alexander R.: (K)ursing -> King (S10)
[03:48] Eadric: maybe just bold?
[03:48] Eadric: lemon R
[03:49] Aranoss: There are 8 lines that end in the vowel sound in 'hey'
[03:49] Eadric: secondary stress if you believe in such crazy things :)
[03:49] Eadric: shore and bore will be echoed soon in "lord"
[03:50] jacque_jackie: And the d's in the next stanza
[03:50] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: And fair.
[03:50] Eadric: though for Tolkien shore and bore don't have R sounds, just the vowel
[03:50] Miss_Ray: R in from?
[03:51] Clarke: Shore, bore, lord would all be dropped Rs in Tolkien's dialect
[03:51] Aranoss: the R is not absent; it is just very subdued. The same is true in lord.
[03:51] Eadric: it works if you consider ROTH to have 2ndary stress. then roth and cursed have a stronger connection
[03:51] Eadric: @Aranoss you mean in Tolkine's accent?
[03:51] Aranoss: Yes
[03:52] Dizzy f.: Yeah we are sloppy with our rs
[03:52] Eadric: He would pronounce it more strongly with a following "Him"
[03:52] Eadric: I grew up with a non-rhotic accent in NYC
[03:52] jacque_jackie: Far from is interesting
[03:53] jacque_jackie: Sounds like Treebeard
[03:53] Eadric: I can't imagine any R sound in 'far', with 'from' following
[03:53] Aranoss: It is less absent than in a Bostonian or NYC accent.
[03:53] jacque_jackie: Fa frum
[03:53] Aranoss: pahk the cah
[03:53] Alexander R.: The boston accent fails to move the vowel back toward the throat
[03:54] AprilDaydream: boston on one end, wisconsin on the other.
[03:54] Eadric: it colors the vowel, but no actual R remains
[03:54] jacque_jackie: What about the d's
[03:54] Aranoss: @Corey did you want a quick look at the Tengwar version before the field trip?
[03:54] Aspen C.: Yes, the d's
[03:54] Clarke: I just got back from a trip to Australia - I hear a lot of the final -er proounced like a strong -ah (no hint of an r there!)
[03:55] Clarke: near = ne-ah
[03:55] jacque_jackie: behelD, faDing. beyonD, curseD, NimroDel
[03:57] Eadric: and ELven in the next stanza
[03:57] Eadric: and closely to GLEN
[03:57] jacque_jackie: Sorry sorry
[03:57] Eadric: Cursed has a T sound
[03:57] jacque_jackie: Ha!
[03:58] jacque_jackie: Cursed
[03:58] Eadric: (unless you give it two syllables!)
[03:58] jacque_jackie: Oh
[03:58] jacque_jackie: Sounds like a t
[03:58] Alexander R.: you can't have a consonant cluster with both voiced and unvoiced
[03:58] Eadric: ^
[03:58] Aranoss: Yes, t at the end of cursed
[03:59] Eadric: I used to try, when I was a kid
[03:59] Eadric: (I was a nerd.)
[03:59] Druidsfire: Weren't we all...
[03:59] Clarke: Yeah, I've tried it too - doesn't work
[03:59] Alexander R.: I'm laughing way too hard at that picture
[03:59] Miss_Ray: Woo!
[04:00] Aranoss: Anyone want to see the Tengwar version?
[04:00] SilkWeskit: 'night, all!
[04:00] Rin: g'night folks
[04:00] Eadric: What was Notes and Queries for?
[04:00] Alexander R.: I posted one in the Notes and Queries
[04:00] Andrew H.: Back to Weathertop!
[04:00] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: Night, everyone!  Flights of angels sing thee to thy rest!
[04:01] MaureenD: Can anyone add a Thread?
[04:01] AprilDaydream: aw, weathertop.
[04:01] AprilDaydream: ooo..
[04:02] MaureenD: pretty
[04:02] AprilDaydream: It's like the rosetta stone.
[04:02] Eadric: Corey I'll have some Keynote slides for you in a day or two, with a color coded system.
[04:02] Jack_Rabbit_Monster: look at how pretty the word Nimrodel is in Tengwar!
[04:02] AprilDaydream: Great job team!
[04:03] Eadric: Gnight everybody!
[04:03] AprilDaydream: Farewell!
[04:05] JJ48: "Moria" becomes "No-moria".
[04:06] JJ48: "This one has a little star / This one here has journeyed far / What a lot of alts there are!"
[04:08] JJ48: They have overseers, so they must oversee something.
[04:08] JJ48: Obviously, the Endless Stair was a precaution in case the Endless Elevator was out of order.
[04:09] Amathorn: We do know one very important thing... It does in fact... end.
[04:10] Amathorn: Presumably they planned to develop this at some point in the future.
[04:10] JJ48: The sheer pointlessness of it may help explain how it got lost for so long.
[04:10] Amathorn: The endless ramp just doesn't sound as good
[04:12] Amathorn: The battle between Gandalf and the Balrog broke it here.
[04:12] JJ48: Great view for anyone who gets light-headed from heights.
[04:12] Andrew H.: I've been in a few parking garages that I would have sworn had an endless ramp
[04:13] JJ48: Cosmetically-winged Balrogs*
[04:14] Amathorn: Sometimes I get the feeling that dwarves just like to build.
[04:14] JJ48: The Dwarves had clearly played Minecraft:  you don't dig straight down, but instead dig down a staircase.
[04:15] JJ48: It's not the same statue on every side of the Stair!
[04:15] Amathorn: I still like to think the dwarves had roads/passages connecting all their holdings in the Misty Mountains.
[04:19] Amathorn: Outside of the many instances
[04:20] Amathorn: I don't recall doing them here
[04:21] Amathorn: southern Mirkwood?
[04:22] JJ48: Are we meeting here first, or are we meeting there?
[04:23] JJ48: Thanks, Professor!
[04:23] Amathorn: Great. Thanks! Good night.
[04:25] Turadel: Good night!

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